Re: BBC does IPv6 ;) (Was: large multi-site enterprises and PI prefix [Re: who gets a /32)

[Jeroen Massar <jeroen () unfix org>]

[eek ... html, please don't]

On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 10:55 +0000, Ryan O'Connell wrote:
> I've worked for quite a few smaller companies where Internet access
> for one reason or another is business-critical. Examples would be:
> (I've not worked for all of the companies listed, but I know about
> their networks at least)
> - Any of a large variety of companies doing financial transactions
> online - (e.g. www.olf.co.uk, they do car finance via brokers over the
> internet)

route:        213.154.0.0/22
descr:        On:Line Finance Limited

aut-num:      AS702
as-name:      AS702
descr:        MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe

That is whois, though, according to RouteViews they don't have their
bookkeeping entirely in order:
8<---------------
BGP routing table entry for 213.154.0.0/24, version 12038440
Paths: (48 available, best #47, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  16150 8984 8434 8210 702 2830
    217.75.96.60 from 217.75.96.60 (217.75.96.60)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 8210:209 8434:2001 8984:501 16150:65306 16150:65318
16150:65321 16150:65330 16150:65380
---------------->8

Ah explains:
aut-num:      AS2830
as-name:      MCI-dual-homed-customers
descr:        MCI Dual-Homed customers

MCI, well known large ISP :)

What happens to this organization when MCI goes belly up? :)

> - On-line gambling companies (www.betfair.com being the largest in the
> UK I think, the sums of money involved are huge)

inetnum:      212.62.21.224 - 212.62.21.255
netname:      NET-INSIGHT-MARKET
descr:        Insight Market
country:      GB

route:        212.62.0.0/19
descr:        CH-EXODUS
origin:       AS1273

Routeviews:

BGP routing table entry for 212.62.0.0/19, version 15091320
Paths: (49 available, best #30, table Default-IP-Routing-Table)
  Not advertised to any peer
  16150 8434 3257 1273
    217.75.96.60 from 217.75.96.60 (217.75.96.60)
      Origin IGP, metric 0, localpref 100, valid, external
      Community: 3257:4040 3257:5031 8434:3000 16150:65305 16150:65321
16150:65422

And that is Cable&Wireless... that is an oldy too...
What happens when C&W goes belly up? KPN Eurorings-style perhaps? :)

Thus both these two examples are not even multihomed and already use an
ISP who are IPv6 capable. You probably picked exactly two wrong ones out
of your extremely long list.

> - Content providers (E.g. www.digex.com, before they were bought out
>  by MCI. I doubt google have 200 sites either.)

But Digex does have more than 200 customers...

Also Google is Akamaized and doesn't thus do their own hosting.
Most likely the crawlers are in their 'own' space though.

www.google.com          CNAME   www.google.akadns.net
www.google.akadns.net   A       216.239.59.99
www.google.akadns.net   A       216.239.59.104


 
> - Small and Medium sized telecoms providers - (e.g. www.mblox.com -
> SMS connectivity is provided over VPNs to various European/US
> carriers. Also pretty much any VoIP operator.)

Qwest Cybercenters QWEST-CYBERCENTER (NET-63-236-0-0-2)
                                  63.236.0.0 - 63.236.127.255

No comment ;)

> - Aviation companies (The ones I've worked for have long since gone
> bust)

Aviation companies are a text-book multihoming example of course ;)
But most of the above need multi-homing, not address independence.
None of the above neither have a need for 2^(128-32) IP addresses.
They would need 1-<sites> /48's, but not 65535 of those.

Notez bien, that even if you get a /32 or so, if you have multiple sites
around the globe, are you going to announce this /32 in one chunk and
are they going to do the traffic between them theirselves?

Say CasinoX gets 2001:db8::/32 (the IPv6 doc prefix btw).
They have 5 "sites" around the world, Tokio (2001:db8:1000::/48),
Amsterdam (2001:db8:2000::/48), NewYork (2001:db8:3000::/48), Singapore
(2001:db8:4000::/48), Zurich (2001:db8:5000::/48). Let's neglect the
huge amount of IP address waste (and this time I agree that it is a
waste even though "there is enough"). They thus announce 2001:db8::/32
on the AMS-IX, the same prefix in the other IX's etc. A packet arrives
in Amsterdam but destined to 2001:db8:1000::/48. Now please explain how
they are going to shove this packet to the Tokio?. VPN over the internet
to their own prefix? Or do you want to announce _seperate_ /48's out of
the /32?

I am not even talking about having the equipment nor the staff (and thus
even the money) to make the above happening in the first place ;)

<SNIP>
> At least in Europe, when it does come to crunch time I can see the
> RIRs being hit *very* hard with a series of lawsuits for
> monopolistic/anti-competitive behaviour from some of these people -
> bear in mind the financial companies will have laywers on staff and
> simply can not afford to lose redundancy.

Yeah, sue time! Especially funny as you want to sue an organization that
has made up the rules through it's membership ;)
I still can have a fit about a certain M$ trail about monopolies ;)

Now I repeat my question (again): did any of the above companies even
try to get an IPv6 allocation?

Or for that matter did any of the above do any IPv6 trails at all?

Greets,
 Jeroen

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