Re: IPv4 flag day

[Douglas Fischer via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

NAT is cancer!
NAT in IPv6 is spreading cancer cells to all the organs of a new, healthy
body.

NAT it's not just translate addresses... It needs to deal with the
applications upper layers.
NAT breaks everything that uses side-connections like P2P communications.

In other words, this idea that NAT66 can save dual-isp-home connections its
a lie...
It breaks the applications. Especially the end-to-end applications.

Suggesting this kind of solution just reinforces the cloud-server-centric
non-opt-outable that we already live with.
That is the work way to go!



Em qua., 17 de jun. de 2026 às 12:45, Brandon Jackson via NANOG <
nanog () lists nanog org> escreveu:

> routerOS v7 (2021) supports IPv6 NAT66/NPT
> A quick search also shows that Vyatta supports NAT66/NPT
> edgeOS, well its Ubiquiti, what do you expect when trying to use trash?
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> Brandon Jackson
> bjackson () napshome net
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 11:29 AM Matthew Petach via NANOG
> <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 00:32 Marco Moock via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Am 17.06.26 um 08:29 schrieb Vasilenko Eduard via NANOG:
> > > > Has any CPE vendor implemented the redundancy NPTv6 scheme (with all
> > > IPv6 features) that Matthew mentioned for NAT44?
> > >
> > > No, as normal CPE devices are used by home users. They don't need that.
> > > Business users buy professional devices and use BGP or other routing
> > > protocols for real redundancy.
> >
> >
> > *facepalm*
> >
> > No, my small business with 15 people doesn't buy Juniper routers with two
> > BGP upstreams and pay ARIN for an ASN and provider independent IP space.
> >
> > But it *does* still want to be able to get work done on the Internet when
> > ISP A goes down by using ISP B.
> >
> > You seem to be denying the existence of all the small businesses in the
> > world.
> > Given that Google estimates there are 200 to 400 million enterprises with
> > less than 50 employees worldwide,  that's a pretty big chunk of the
> > business world to ignore.
> >
> > Or are you suggesting that 400 million small businesses should get their
> > own ASNs and provider independent IPv6 space, and use BGP to gain
> > redundancy for their businesses?
> >
> > (talk about driving a demand for more router RAM for the DFZ core!   ;-P
> )
> > > > Reminder: 6man WG makes all possible efforts to block NPTv6.
> > >
> > > It already exists, IIRC Cisco IOS supports that.
> >
> >
> > Too bad every small business using edgeOS or Vyatta or routerOS is left
> > out--no NPTv6 or NAT66 for them.  But that was some pretty good shilling
> > for Cisco there.  ;)
> >
> > In all seriousness, I hope we're coming to the realization that there's a
> > big use case that is not currently well supported on the V6 world, and
> > telling hundreds of millions of small businesses to add to the
> BGP-speaking
> > core routing tables is probably *not* the right answer.  Unless of course
> > you want Geoff Huston to do a NANOG talk entitled "What The Hell Just
> > Happened?" with a hockey-stick shaped graph showing the number of ASNs in
> > the v6 routing tables.  :/
> >
> > In summary: there are still technical hurdles to deploying IPv6 that we
> > created through our decisions long ago that need to be solved before we
> can
> > start talking about sunsetting IPv4.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > > --
> > > Gruß
> > > Marco
> > > Muell und Spam bitte an abfalleimer2002 () stinkedores dorfdsl de
> > > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Douglas Fernando Fischer
Engº de Controle e Automação
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